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No Net8
#30 09/08/99 10:35 PM
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I was thinking about what would make DOA just amazing and put it in front of other tools that people are making.

Just curios what everyone thinks.

How about (like the thin JBDC Java Connection for Oracle) not needing Net8 or SQL*. In java is you use the thin clinet you need NOTHING but your class file and you can connect to Oracle 7 up.

This makes working with Oracle real nice, we would be able to have one EXE.

What does everyone think about this. The JDBC stuff does it over TCP/IP so... it can be done, now it may be hard but I think it would be a real nice addition. One that Inprise would be crazy to not OEM a lite version of to add in Delphi x.

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Chris


Chris
Re: No Net8
#31 09/08/99 10:56 PM
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Fresno, CA, USA
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That sounds like a great idea, Chris! Is the java source code for the JDBC drivers available? If so, how about setting up a working group to work on the implementation?


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Michael Bonner
Programmer/Analyst III
City of Fresno
E-Mail: michael.bonner@ci.fresno.ca.us
Visit our web site at www.ci.fresno.ca.us


Michael Bonner
Programmer/Analyst III
City of Fresno
E-Mail: michael.bonner@ci.fresno.ca.us
Visit our web site at www.ci.fresno.ca.us
Re: No Net8
#32 09/08/99 10:59 PM
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I will check on the code. I do not know. I will reply back in a little while.


Chris
Re: No Net8
#33 09/08/99 11:09 PM
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Ok The thin JDBC drivers do not have source directly with them. (It is 230 Java Class files)

BUT... The do decompile with a java decompiler very well.


Chris
Re: No Net8
#34 09/09/99 04:03 AM
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Conceptually there cannot be much difference between the JDBC and Net8 approach. They are both a required layer when talking to an Oracle database from a client. What would be useful to know is the minumum files required to have a working Net8 install, this can be put on a Network but you have to add oracle_home to the path.

Re: No Net8
#35 09/09/99 07:10 PM
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I biggest thing I see is you can not just tell someone on the intenet to install the clinet to connect to your database. With an activeX control delphi could connect to an Oracle Database over the net if the user did not need to install stuff.


Chris
Re: No Net8
#36 09/10/99 06:00 AM
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Its all how its marketed, Sun/Oracle et al are doing a good job at fooling people.

I have Oracle's jinitiator on my PC, its about 9.5MB of code (what I can find). A lot of this is junk and not needed for database access but it still has to get to my c: drive.

I have Net8 on my PC, this is about 30MB. A lot of this is junk and not needed for database access but still has to get to my C:drive.

I don't have any JDBC (as far as I know) but I'm pretty sure if its there, a lot of it is junk, and it still has to get to my c: drive.

Oracle/Sun et al say Java is thin but its all
smoke and mirrors. Look around your c:drive and look at all the java stuff thats been left there by things that download it while you are twiddling your thumbs. And you need a JVM, that has to get to your c drive somehow. The browser JVM's don't really cut it for real life applications, enter jintiator.

Of course you could download the whole lot each time when you log in, but nobody in their right mind does that more than twice. Its on your c: drive, baby!

When I said you can put Net8 on the network thats what you do, leave it there. Make sure the correct registry settings are made and the path is changed to point to a mapped network drive. This only works on LANS but its a step in the right direction.

What I'm doing is automatically installing Net8 on a PC when they first click on the main executable's Shortcut, the user just sees it slow first time but they have no idea that anything is being installed, likewise with java. Oh except that with java its slow the 2nd, 3rd, 4th time.... [Linked Image].

This is why I want to know the minimum files for a Net8 install, I reckon theres a meg or two of good stuff you really need.

As for getting this all in one exe then you would have to rely on Oracle not changing their internals on the server. They publish the OCI for the client which is what DOA uses, I am sure JDBC has a similar published API (but really haven't got a clue). Whats activex going to do for you? You are now in 32 bit windows mode so essentially you would have to duplicate everything that Net8 does and that is not trivial. So next step is to use the activex control to connect to the published OCI but then you have reinvented DOA!

[This message has been edited by chapeau (edited 10 September 1999).]

Re: No Net8
#37 09/10/99 07:04 PM
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A few good points.

But I still think it would be nice to be able to have anyone in a company intranet connect to oracle without having to install the client. I would be ok with the network map idea, but... But (like many places) not all users connect to the same domain. (Enterprise Level stuff) also they are not even on the same network MANY times. Usally they need to connect 100% over the internet from clients locations, using a clinets machine. ActiveX allows us to do that.

The JDBC Thin clinet is nice for java because you include the JDBC class files with you class file in a JAR file. The browser takes care of it all and you can connect without having to install much. (1meg or so)


Chris

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